good luck chris . We need at least a 1,5 hp dust collector or 2 hp cyclone for good chip collection in a typical one-car garage sized small shop, but it takes at least a 3 hp DC or cyclone to give good fine dust collection in this same sized shop. Standard ratios and dust bin end up making a 21" diameter cyclone too tall to fit under the normal 8' tall shop ceiling, plus 7" duct is difficult to find and expensive to buy.
I gave up on using airfoil impellers and caged impellers to power a cyclone. One very popular supplier of cyclones and blowers for hobbyists sells exactly the same blower impeller with 1.5, 2 and 3 hp motors.
It took me nearly two years of looking before I found a 15" impeller on eBay because there are too many of us all looking for the same thing. I am taking your advice and upgrading to a 9" outlet. All cyclones, except the shop vac cyclone, use a neutral vane and the inlet tube is sloped down 15 degrees for more efficiency. These were very pricey filters, should have been at least 500 instead of just just 450 square feet, and arrived with shipping damage. The cyclones are designed to have virtually no air movement near the opening at the bottom, so dust can settle via gravity in to the barrel. Two different types of fine filters are used with woodworking, blended polyester cellulose filters and the roughly twice as expensive all polyester filters. Many small shop vendors would like us to think sizing our filter is rocket science because most have serious problems with using fine filters. Using a particle meter will tell you quickly if you need to replace your filters. Work by the Cotton researchers found this traditional cyclone gets better separation with a longer cone. 
Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing. These work well initially but as they season they eventually seriously block the airflow we need to actually collect the finest unhealthiest invisible dust. What is going on and what can I do to fix my cyclone? I could get the barrel to about 25% full before the chips just went right to the filter/bags. Had he followed my advice and gone with all 6" ducting and 6" hoses, with nice straight smooth runs he could have gotten by with a smaller impeller and less suction, but his cyclone would still have been at risk. The fine invisible dust these filters pass damages our health so slowly that unless you are a serious athlete you would not detect any changes as they occur. What is going on and what can I do to fix my cyclone? The first and most important serious modification is to go with 6" ducting and 6" flex hose right to your machines and change all the machine ports to full 6" inlets.
Putting two bigger motors on that same blower that run at exactly the same speed shows they do not have a clue. I made one from MDF to make a smoother transition. Others have used other brands including a few who get used large truck cartridge air filters. I suggest you shop carefully and watch shipping costs closely because these huge units can be prohibitively expensive to ship. Most small shops are typical two-car garage sized and typical shops need at least a 2 hp DC or 3 hp cyclone to get good chip collection and a full 3 hp DC or 5 hp cyclone to get good fine dust collection. The major filter makers all recommend for air pre-cleaned by a cyclone we need at least one square feet of blended filter area for every two CFM or one square feet of all polyester filter area for every four CFM of airflow. Is that reasonable, and if it is will it still work with my cyclone? All of the other repairs will take a lot of time and money, but will not make all that much difference. Although they offer the 0.5-micron filters, I instead strongly recommend their MERV-15 rated "Nano" filters instead. How much will it cost me to weld on the tabs on my impeller and get it balanced? I got sucked in to buying a 1.5hp DC that was "rated" at 120.php (just like its 2hp brother). http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cyclone-Separator-for-Dust-Collector-with-Left-hand-Inlet-/280840027122.
The 16" fan is supposed to go with the larger CVMAX cyclone, but it works fine with the CV1800. This is the EXACT thing I am planing. dust collector cyclone inlet inch galvanized left steel Small shop blowers are mostly poorly engineered so rarely move as much air as good commercial blowers. The design on my spreadsheet is optimized for separating fine wood dust with a relatively small motor and blower. In short we should use one square foot of filter area for every four CFM for all polyester filters and one square foot of blended filter area for each two CFM of airflow.
If allowed wide open air access with a big impeller, most blowers would quickly push so much air that the motor would draw too many amps and either cut out if protected from overheating or burn up, so dust collector makers limit port and impeller sizes. Make sure you use a minimum of flex hose and that any you use has smooth interior walls as that only has about three times the resistance of smooth pipe. Regular bags and cartridge filters add about 2" of resistance when clean and new and up to 5" of resistance when fully seasoned. If you have the all polyester filters, then instead of replacing your filter when you see that two inch pressure drop, what you do instead is thoroughly wash your filter in accord with the filter maker instructions. Otherwise it will cause the incoming air to "turn the corner" and greatly reduce separation efficiency. Dick and Rick Wynn have been very helpful both with information, supplying top quality filters for good prices, and top quality flex hose and hose clamps for excellent prices as well. The Wood Magazine design cone that is used by so many other small shop vendors is a weird length arbitrarily chosen by the makers of the cyclone that was copied to permit fitting these just barely under an 8' ceiling. Good luck with whatever you do and let us know how it works. Now with that introduction, the easiest way to determine if the worsening performance is filter and airflow related is to simply increase the size of your filter. I always recommend against either making your own impeller or modifying a current dust collector. That will give me a 14" impeller that will just barely fit in my existing blower housing. The push through design increases your risk by not protecting the impeller from material hits. Remember to put your priorities in the right place. | Funny thing is that I'm looking at the same decision right now. I would like to know what you would advise at this point for the least possible expense? Because the bags have so little surface area, poorly sized fine filters quickly plug building up a huge amount of resistance. I bought a bigger industrial impeller and carefully checked my motor amperage to make sure it stayed in its working range. Otherwise you will have poor collection, constantly have to clean filters, and way too often need to replace your fine filters. As long as you put in a "neutral vane" the 6" inlet is fine as is. Still , $200 plus shipping is very tempting. Using two in series can be made to work if the motors can handle the extra load. As soon as the pressure drops two water column inches below the fully seasoned pressure level it is time to toss and replace your filters. cyclone You will get some improvement with that 3X cone length, but by the time you make this and your other changes it would have been far easier to simply build my design. Your link has been automatically embedded. I actually had this exact problem with my HF 2HP version. This gives more airflow, but if done poorly could cause your impeller to explode sending pieces all over or burn out your motor. If you are just using the cyclone with a dust collector connected with a flex hose, and not close, it doesn't matter which side the inlet on the cyclone is located. Then add a "neutral vane" unless your cyclone already has one. separator cyclone woodcraft weblinc absauganlage werkbank sawdust oneida staubsauger jigs extraction holzarbeiten weltkarte plans woodworkers The commercial dust collectors and cyclones that our small shop vendors copy were never engineered to use fine filters. I am not suggesting that necessarily justifies it, but they are pretty different. Properly sizing a cyclone requires us to know how much air we need to move and to also know both the minimum and maximum resistance our cyclone must work against. This is a dilution problem that is at best ugly. Make sure your thoroughly blow down the outside of your filter as well. This guy seems to have a similar setup as you. This will put the air into the cyclone smoothly and right on the surface to minimize turbulence and give up to a 50% reduction in resistance compared to the original design. Then ensure you have the right size ducting, hoses, tool hoods and tool ports. Updated: January 28, 2014. The maximum resistance occurs with the longest, smallest, roughest ducting run with the dirtiest filters. cyclone collector dust inlet inch right cyclone sandblaster To meet EPA and medical air quality recommendations you really should use a 5 hp motor turning a 15" diameter impeller. All of this information leads to some pretty bad news for most small shop dust collector and cyclone owners. It is important to make sure the container is airtight for the system to work properly. - eBay Money Back Guarantee - opens in a new window or tab. If you order your cyclone from this page you will receive a cyclone with the inlet on the right hand side. Don't bother, you mess with the cylinder dimensions and you could mess up the separation badly. These cyclones are approx. Same diameter as the dust deputy XL but taller. Likewise you should at the same time install a bigger outlet pipe in your cyclone that is half the cyclone diameter. All the major fan/blower makers sell the airfoil impellers for $250-$450 each. oneida To size the motor we stay on the same line where we found our impeller and check to see how many horse power will be drawn at our lowest resistance level. oneida ( If your cyclone and blower are smaller, then know that you are not going to move enough air to get good fine dust collection. On the other hand, opening all up wide especially with a bigger impeller can draw enough amps to quickly burn up a motor.
So the backup plan was to upgrade to the "Super Dust Deputy XL". All rights reserved. Properly sized fine cartridge filter adds about 0.25" when clean and new and only about .5 when fully seasoned. web pages. Something went wrong. Alternatively, just about any 1900 CFM or larger dust collector motor/blower with 14" diameter impeller should work fine for you. Additionally, even with my special modifications an airfoil impeller tends to stall at about 7" of resistance. Sadly, most small shop blowers are not nearly as well made so the best we can hope for is what is normal for commercial blowers. If you closed the intake and tested with your amp meter, you would find your unit is loafing! Given the link shared, I may try the DDXL again, being extremely careful of any leaks, and then if still having issues, just adding some distance and bends between the blower and the separator. Most in private industry find that with the all poly filters costing double the blended filters that by the time they factor in the down time and labor to do the washing, that it is easier and less costly to use the blended filters. That firm was just not set up to deal with small shop purchase volumes. Why doesn't yours? Is it ok to reduce the cyclone outlet right at the top of the cyclone so the blower can be top mounted? https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsk0VxaVqgZF1i40zvMO9eBXvjE6xZ0gg. Thanks Collin, that is the guy. Here is a link to someone who added the Super Dust Deputy XL to their G0562 with apparent success. Until recently this required you to spend the money to buy new filters. This protects their impellers as long as the dust bins don't get full from wood knots, cats, and other debris except very fine dust. Those with straight inlets need to use different length outlet tubes that both keep the air from "turning the corner" and keep that outlet tube from sucking the fine dust off the cyclone walls. For very cost conscious small shop operators who don't count their time, then the all poly is a less expensive alternative. Many engineered DC's I see about the countryside seem to have very short cylinders and very long (by comparison) cones and now that you mention it, rectangular inlets also. Might be worth a look if money matters. To collect the fine dust we need 1000 CFM at the same machines that only need 350 CFM for good chip collection. His cyclone ended up about 3" thick and his 30-gauge HVAC lightweight straight long ducting runs all crimped. I have the CV1800 cyclone and 16" fan, 5HP. Finally, take a serious look at your blower. In either case the air going through the filter builds a large static charge that will collect airborne dust on the outside of the filter. Use polyurethane caulk to glue this to the top of the cyclone (caution - silicone caulk will eventually let loose on galvanized metal due to a chemical reaction). It takes over a year for most small shop filters to fully season, meaning they carry as much dust stuck in their filters as they will carry through a normal cleaning session. The following things will also help. But that's only a guess and a future matter. If you would like to build a cyclone tower with your dust collector fan motor you should make sure that the incoming air flow of your cyclone is going in the same direction as your fan motor. Most of the time, I just take off the face plate of the blower and the 9" cyclone outlet ends up defining a 9" blower inlet. The spreadsheet will automatically compute the correct length for each different sized cyclone. They can block airflow dead when dirty. As near as I can tell the term "neutral vane" took a common HVAC air director term and misused it to make up for the basic design flaw in many early small shop cyclones. Clear editor. cleared payment - opens in a new window or tab, - for PayPal Credit, opens in a new window or tab, Learn more about earning points with eBay Mastercard, - eBay Return policy - opens in a new tab or window, - eBay Money Back Guarantee - opens in a new tab or window, No Interest if paid in full in 6 mo on $99+. Anything else will greatly cost airflow. That makes a huge difference in total airflow. The ClearVue is substantially larger than the DDXL. Since you have to cube the horsepower to double the CFM, anything you can do to make things more efficient is usually a good idea. The disadvantage is making this larger opening ends up with more of the fine dust getting blown into the filters instead of dropped into the dust bin. Upload or insert images from URL. I finally found and recommend Wynn Environmental. If we use these units with fine filters we end up putting one pound of filter clogging airborne dust into our filters with every twenty pounds of dust we create. You can post now and register later. Amazon Daily Deals I made that comment before the "neutral vane" became a popular fix. Created: May 10, 2001 I got away with this because the blower housing I had was actually made to handle either the 11" impeller supplied or the 12" impeller offered on the next larger model. To find the "exact" optimum performance place, use an amp meter on your motor and move the pipe in and out. I think I may be stuck either forking over the $450 to CV or building.
Those who make all of these modifications end up with cyclones that only have about 3.5" of static pressure. Try it as is? Right now it works. Have a new tall 3X cone, a 9" outlet made and a 9" round inlet? There's only two ways that can happen: (1) there is a leak somewhere in the barrel, causing air flow from the barrel up the cyclone to the filters (2) there is MASSIVE air turbulence in the barrel caused by the airflow in the cyclone. Unless you use an oversized impeller you need at least a 7" blower inlet and outlet and at least a 14" diameter blower impeller. Air at dust collection pressures is more like water so any restriction, bad rough ducting, etc. This means you can use existing stovepipe fittings for piping between the cyclone and dust collector which are available at your local hardware store. If you have really good dust collection and your shop air remains clean then no filter problems. This consistency lets us check a fan curve from any of the major name blower makers to size our blower.
Stalling also causes the impeller to vibrate bad enough to soon ruin motor bearings. The filter material makers provide charts and tables that tell us how much filter are we need for a given air volume. IF the meter starts climbing after you turn on the cyclone and just keeps getting worse then your filter is shot because the fine dust is working right through it back into your shop air. One pound of airborne dust will clog a 100 square foot fine filter to point it will barely pass air which is why we often must clean our fine filters. I am considering the Oneida Super Dust Deputy XL. How big of a bin are you using? Just either screw or pop-rivet that pipe and you have the biggest improvement that you can easily make to your existing cyclone. They also find when they get particle meters that their systems do a poor job of good fine dust collection because they just do not move enough air. The large diameter of this outlet minimizes exiting airspeed to reduce turbulence and keep from pulling the fine dust off the cyclone walls. The ideal place is when the amps are at a maximum, as that is when the impeller is pushing the most air. The more airflow the harder a blower works. Modification is not easy. Since no one has seen your set up it is hard to comment, but many people had the set up you described with a 3HP blower with out the issue you encountered. Remove the existing blower inlet cover and make up a new cover out of 3/4" plywood that matches the plywood on the cyclone and the new inlet diameter. At the typical volumes and pressures used in dust collection we need 6" duct to move 800 CFM. My cyclone design uses an oversized impeller to let us use 6" diameter duct which lets us use an 18" diameter cyclone. If you cut off the airflow the blower loafs along using the least amount of power. The "neutral vane" fix improves cyclone efficiency between 30% to 40% and so does the use of a rectangular inlet that goes in and creates its own similar "neutral vane" effect. Resistance is measured in water column inches (W.C.) measured by how high a blower must push or pull a colored column of water in a looped tube to overcome the resistance. Moreover, when it comes time to upgrade filters you can simply release the clips and move this filter pan to your new filter. I powered it with my Jet 1.5 hp DC-1100 with an 11" impeller. What will happen is the static pressure will build as the filter seasons then hold fairly steady for a while. Powered by Invision Community, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofYQCAgP2Ts, link to someone who added the Super Dust Deputy XL to their G0562 with apparent success. Not b/c of air and loss of vacuum but because of physical inertia and the sheer size of the unit. I have recently upgraded my 2HP Harbor Freight unit, that had a Wynn Filter and Super Dust Deputy, with a Grizzly G0562. He has 3 sizes on his website, with left and right versions of each. It does not take much of a leak to cause this to happen. With your current blower shroud you can either buy a bigger impeller or have a welder add more blade area to the tips of your impeller blade. The dealer told me the fan was the same on both and at the time I didn't know the difference. They show that our typical hobbyist woodworking cyclones should use a 5 horsepower motor turning a 15" impeller. It is also used to separate grain from chaff. The build your own blower plans on these pages will get you an excellent blower that you can use to power either a cyclone or dust collector. dust mini separator cyclone diy cv06 vue clear cyclones flash sorry player How much air we need to move is simply 350 CFM at most larger stationary tools if we want good "chip collection" which picks up the same stuff we would otherwise sweep up with a broom. You might be able to get by with a 3 hp and 14" impeller if you really clean up your ducting run and go with all the modifications to your cyclone recommended here, but I think you will be far happier with a 15" impeller and 5 hp motor. i have seen the oneida C-650 at $400 /or / the east caroga Lg. The biggest advantage of this is he now gets well over 1200 CFM through his 6" pipe, but he has to pay for far more power than running a single 5 hp blower with 15" impeller. That will make the cyclone outlet 9" going into a blower inlet that is only 6". That bigger motor also will support a 15" or even 16" diameter impeller that gives a real 1000 CFM through 6" duct. If you can find someone in your area with these tools, they get to name their own price. Clearvue sells their cyclone bodies separately for $450. Without that airflow you are not going to gather the very fine most dangerous dust.
Just about the time that the "newness" of our cyclone wears off, suddenly instead of working well we find ourselves spending a lot of time cleaning filters and airflow dropping to so poor we no longer get good collection of the heavier sawdust and chips. The following are a few examples of dust collector fan motors that you would use with this left hand inlet cyclone if you are building a tower: Jet DC-1100, Jet DC-1200, Jet DC-1900, Powermatic P1300, Powermatic PM1900, General 10-105, Craftsman 1 1/2hp, Delta 50-850 and Bridgewood BW-105H. Effects on performance???? They also carry the much bigger Farr compatible 300 square foot filters. If buy is the recommendation, any economical options out there? Also there is a 1600 CFM plug fan that uses a caged impeller that can work.
dust inlet This can save nearly a full horsepower on the cyclone motor. Make the cone length 3 times the diameter. However, I quickly found that this was much too much motor for the "Super Dust Deputy". Change the round inlet to a tangentially mounted rectangular box that is as long as the diameter of the cyclone. In my fairly large metropolitan area there is one and only one shop with the tools to do this custom balancing. Is this a good way to go? Amazon Best Sellers As a result they can build up strings and shavings that can throw them badly out of balance and quickly ruin our motor bearings. The more open the filter the less airborne dust gets trapped, the longer between cleanings, longer the filter will last, smaller the filter can be, and less the filter will cost. What is not well covered are the cyclone and filter sizing issues, and what you can do to improve your existing cyclone that becomes a marginal performer. If I find some folks who like it , I will probably go with East Caroga. Do you still need the 2-3HP to run this fan? Adding one of these to the standard 95 to 120 square feet filter sizes that too many vendors sell will drop filter overhead by a huge amount and greatly increase your airflow. Bill I've had my cyclone for a few years and at first it seemed to work well, but now it does not suck well enough to do a good job of "chip collection" and I find myself having to constantly clean its fine dust filter. If not, why? If you open the ports or change the blower, you need to test your unit. For the same reason flex hose adds from three to nine times the resistance of smooth walled pipe.
