First, remove the door closer and see if the door shuts with little effort or needs some force to close fully. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on September 30, 2011: Very interesting advise Tom.I think inserting a solid timber block inside the door might be the way to go.alot more time consuming and work but the finished job will look far better than having bolts on the face of the door.I will have to set up a router with a fence and router out the top rail and glue a new piece of 100mm timber in.this will give a much better fixing for the closer.thankyou for your advise. I have tried adjusting it, but no adjustment works. These functions are discussed below in the section titled "Arms.". Also available are concealed overhead door closers that are mounted inside the header above the door or inside the door itself, and floor closers that are installed beneath the threshold. Usually the arm is attached to the spindle by a screw on modern closers whereas with older closers the end of the arm was a clamp that was made tight by a bolt. This article is accurate and true to the best of the authors knowledge. Question: Why would my door closer device be making a loud whirring noise? 
Anyway I looked at some closers and some directions and even called LCN tech support and now I know what it is. The door keeps slamming and I cant figure out how to access the mechanism to adjust it. $67.00, Special Price Door closers that do not have a tension adjustment are often sized to a specific size door. The best solution would be to replace the door with a solid-core door.
Hi, I am building a large (43" x 94") storm door and it needs a closer. A better, but bit more involved way to reinforce the door would be to remove the top strip of wood inside the door and replace it with a solid piece of wood of the same thickness that runs the width of the door and extends down inside the door far enough to mount the door closer on. I guess this part has worn out, and your repair technician, hearing that the complaint is that the door does not stay open, has found another way for it to do so that involves keeping the motor running. thanks for any constructive feedback/advice. The door frame is only visible down each side. Just to be clear, i am looking for one or the other. [g]. I've tried to include a link here, I hope it works. The Arena Media Brands, LLC and respective content providers to this website may receive compensation for some links to products and services on this website. You must have JavaScript enabled in your browser to utilize the functionality of this website. But at the top it is likely to only have its thin veneer - nothing to bite into for the screws that hold a surface mounted door closer to the door. Jess the door closer doctor on September 30, 2016: If the stack pressure cannot be adjusted so the doors will close, it may be a good idea to use a power operator that has powered closing by means of an electric motor instead of a closer, On wednesday I came accross a tough to open door at a diner, they had the pressure negatively set, hard to open outer door and a barely closing inner door, my friend whom I was driving with pointed it out to me and I toldnmy observations and flagged down a waitress in hopes she will get owner to turn the HVAC down so its easier to open the door (I may not be in need of a wheelchair but the strong to open door was at top of a ramp). Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on June 02, 2012: Round top doors, ah yes, I remember them all too well. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on February 26, 2012: Awesome, Jess, thank you! Sugatsune LDD-S-L/DBR: Surface Mount Door Damper (left) in Dark Brown finish. Answer: When a decorative molding makes door closer installation challenging, you can 1) use parallel arm installation on the push side of the door, or 2) if the molding is made of wood, cut into the decorative molding on the header to make a flat place to install the shoe. Answer: It could be some things. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on September 27, 2016: 615R is a UL listing that is stamped on many door closers, so it does not tell us what door closer you have, and difficult for me to suggest a solution. My question is, can I just buy a small headless bolt and coupler to extend the arm myself? Call and speak to one of our hardware experts. Optional spacer for LAD-ST. Sugatsune LAD-ST LIFT ASSIST DAMPER (W/ANGLE STOPPER) do you have a drawing for this? The Sargent 422 has a newer internal design that translates into a door that is easier to open, yet closes with consistent force throughout the arc of the swing. Is there any add-on (or OEM closer) available that allows mounting where my current cheap tubular hydraulic closer is, which is about 18 inches off the threshold? i once seen an installation video (of a brand that has a closer similar to the 4041) where they totally didn't even mention the valve, i told them about it and not heard back from the company about what i seen in the videos. It is a common problem with modern (post WW II) wood door frame installations that the frames are put in with nothing supporting the header. We use the right door, the wind catches it and often pulls from your hand or just swings it back hard against the house. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on January 31, 2012: Some door closers are handed. Question: MY door closer will not fully close the door. To be sure, check the installation instructions. Since its in the kitchen, a pull side mount would be the only mounting option, but I haven't been able to find anything that can keep the door at that kind of angle and close it if its less than that angle. Since casings are usually connected at the corner miters with nails to pull them together and make the seams tidy, it is not a surprise that the side molding should also be pulled off. In most closers, the vulnerable aspect is the hydraulics, not the spring. I adjusted the swing speed to be very slow, and the latch speed to be very fast. 2022 The Arena Media Brands, LLC and respective content providers on this website. Am I missing a part? I set it up for a 120 opening even though it might open a little less than that. I've told them before but they replied "both our handyman and the fire department inspection just happened 1 hour ago and it passed. Or is the door not able to open as fully as you would like? If on the other hand you pull the threshold and you find the pan is full of oil, it is time to get the closer rebuilt or replaced. Door closer to be mounted on the push or pull side? Surface mounted door closers are by far the most common kind of door closers. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on March 17, 2018: Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on January 31, 2018: Yes, that sounds correct. It worked most of the time. We just had it repaired because it wouldn't remain open, despite the fact it's supposed to be able to. Boy do I feel dumb. Designed to be used with folding brackets. As shown above, surface mounted closers can be mounted in standard, top jamb or parallel arm configurations. And will that affect the ability for the door to close as intended? Question: What is causing the arm on my door closer to keep popping off? On the push side of the door you mimic a person pushing the door open using the gauge. If you are mounting the closer on the pull side of the door, having a reveal that is several inches deep is a problem. An example of a concealed-in-door closer is the LCN 3130 series. Please contact us at. Is their anything I can do to prevent this? The easy way is to put the closer on the pull side and the stop on the opposite side. Question: Our Norton door opener is very difficult to open. The most common way to deal with stop/closer conflict is to use a concealed overhead stop with a surface closer. I will try to get back to this in a day or two. also, you will want to keep tension sizes down to no more then 3 or 4, any higher can risk cracking the door. Is it time for a new door closer? Did not know the door was hollow till we drilled it.. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on November 19, 2014: I think that the most effective remedy, although it would be expensive and would require expertise, would be to remove the double acting spring hinges and install overhead concealed or floor closers that are center hung and double acting. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on May 27, 2016: I am thinking an LCN 1461T might be just the thing. The same principles of adjustments apply to floor closers as do other hydraulic closers: swing speed, closing speed and back check. I'll be back. Light Brown $56.95, Double click on above image to view full picture, Surface mounted door damper that will pull and close the door when engaged. It would certainly get the most professional results. This makes me think that they may have a "special template" solution that would allow you to have your "latter" option. What it sounds like to me, and I am guessing, is that your door opener was designed to open the door to a certain degree and hold it there. If there IS a tension nit on end to adjust spring, the 1-4 is the range of spring sizes the closer can be adjusted to. I was under the impression that there was no difference in installation between the 4041 and the 4040XP, and now I know better. the instructions that came with my 4040XP, is the SAME installation sheet sent out with 4041's. the body and valve locations on a 4040/4041 LCN can confuse people who do not understand what they are looking at. Secondly it overcomes any stack pressure due to air conditioning. Unobtrusive design : damper unit is only 20 mm high, easily fits most door frames. Correct? in pool gate installs, i like to be able to run the arm in parallel mount configuration to deter the kids (vandals? Then you will be able to open the door wider. Some modern closers use a screw and a washer. I recently bought a Hager 5400 series closer based on no knowledge of door closer installation. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on June 22, 2012: Jim Thompson from Orlando, Florida on June 22, 2012: When measuring door pressure for ADA compliance it is done with the door open slightly for two reasons. *Please note: Sugatsune charges a $5 handling fee on orders under $50. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on January 18, 2018: Hi Garrett, I think you are on the right track. Since I need both these features, can I use both devices? Surface mount that can be retrofitted onto current door installations.Easy to align to proper positioning, speeding up installation.Slim profile (body height only 16 mm) can handle doors up to 40 kg in Sugatsune LDD-S-P SPACER FOR LDD-STwo types available: 2 mm thickness and 3 mm thickness.Can be used for Max. If the closers are mounted in a parallel arm, when the arm is extended until it stops it will, in effect, pull on the closer body. Unfortunately, all 4 of the screws that hold its parallel bracket in place are constantly loose. Choose from fast, efficient delivery or customer collection for your order when you checkout. Hollow metal?
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM332128 Tom, I'm trying to switch a right-hand open parallel arm closer to the left-hand open door but I think I need to switch the arm around somehow to make it work. This being a residential install for our home. People have gone to extremes to try to conquer the problem you are doing, including using two closers on the same door (not something I recommend). Not the most attractive closer on the block, but it does do the job, I can attest first hand. http://aliafineart.blogspot.com/2012/06/2012-regio Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on March 21, 2013: I am thinking that the lack of rod length is causing you to lose the latching speed adjustment? Door closers are generally used on public entrances where doors need to be more surely closed and with more finesse. How do I disable the "Hold Open" mode on my door closer. Alternatively, the catalog section on the LCN 4010T series says to consult the factory if the door is to be held open at 180 degrees. Copyright 2022 SWS Hardware. The screw that connects the door frame to the actual hinge broke off. A parallel arm mount would be the only kind of mount that would apply a direct pull on the mounting screws. about the oil/fluid, if I was approached with this situation, I would say to leave the fluid in the closer and adjust the valves so they are open all the way (not removed from closer body) this way it will not hinder the normal freeswinging feel but will slow it down if someone tries to slam it (in anger or wind take the door), as for the internal parts, this is best left to the experts/professionals to deal with, there is a really strong spring inside them that if taken out wrong or the wrong procedure used, can result in serious personal injury/damage to closer, Tom, a closer that has no fluid or piston/spring is often called a "dummy closer" these are common in use where a concealed overhead closer was used and removed for prepping door for surface or floor closer use, 2 closers is not really recommended for ADA codes, as well as could contribute to premature wear on pivot points. I would prefer the latter. i want to design a gate so that when you slide one door open the other slides in a different direction. It could be that you you have the screw but not the washer. It is similar to the "Surface mounted closer, standard mount" that you posted above. Firstly it overcomes any latching friction. Download the installation instructions, print them out, and bring them with you to the door. Given that, as far as durability, I have seen both door closers and spring hinges work well for forty or fifty years. Why is it too heavy especially for my 3 year old to open. Are their any special fixing for fitting a door closer to a hollow core door? the reason, is because of the hydrualic circuitry in an LCN 4040/4041 backcheck function happens earlier in the door opening cycle if the valve is closed (all has to do with arm geometry) if left open,factory default when they send these closers), the backcheck will arrive later in the door cycle and not recommended. *Applies to standard ground shipping in the contiguous 48 states only. Sounds to me like your door frame is wood with a wooden decorative molding called a casing, and your closer shoe was mounted to just the casing and not to the header. If you choose to call them, I suggest you first find out what model LCN you have by comparing the dimensions and screw pattern of your closer with installation instructions online at LCN. Sometimes the solution is to fix or replace the door and/or door frame. very helpful info thank you that gives me some direction. Some states this is lower for exterior doors and in some cases local fire codes will have a lower requirement and this usurps the ADA code in this case. mainly the difference is now is bigger bearings and pinion as well as different "O" rings used in the 4040XP preventing them from leaking. can you reference a diagram how a standard closer (in any of the 3 standard configurations) would be installed on a round top door? Answer: It does sound like you are missing a part. However, this set up would not likely fit between the storm door and the door. Answer: First, identify it. I have seen this kind of thing before. In older buildings, I have run into unique situations that prevent any kind of satisfactory install. I hope this helps solve the mystery of the numbers you are seeing on a closer. Questions? Other options to combating the preasure war is using spring hinges or floor closers such as Rixson #27 or #28 due to wide range of spring sizes accomodated by them, if you MUST use a surface mount closer, I would choose the LCN 4016, they say that due to dynamic geometric angles if the pull side mounted closer's arm during latch range it will give more power and get the door to latch more efficiently. just looked at the norton 78 b/f closer. Any suggestions? Tom, Is it important to screw in the valve on the back of the closer on 4041 p.a. I think I will leave drawing this fanciful arrangement up to someone more qualified, like a mechanical engineer. If I'm not mistaken, if the backcheck needs adjusting after the closer is installed, one has to remove the door closer to do it.
Look on the Norton Door Controls web site and pick out the one it most looks like. 6 mm thickness gap. Could this be affecting how difficult the door is to open? what also could contribute to the learning, some locksmith courses don't cover the advanced skills and "hints and tips" of closers, but just how to perform "fresh installs" on doors and make the main adjustments. Adjustable Closing Power. If the door does not swing well, or a bent hinge or sprung frame causes resistance, these factors can significantly inhibit the closer's ability to close and latch the door. Track closers generally are generally somewhat less powerful than their cousins that have traditional arms. Can you show me a picture? Is there a way to disable the closer function but keep the arms and stop? Above is shown the LCN 4040XPT and the Sargent 422 surface mount track door closers. I didn't realize until I was nearly finished with installing it that I needed a longer connecting rod for the top jamb installation I'm doing. Although it would cost more money, it might be a quicker and easier solution to replace the door with a wood core door. Significant air pressure that opposes the motion of the closer can be a severe problem to solve. Is this reveal on the pull side? If the door swings well and there is no air pressure problem, it sounds to me like the arm may not be installed correctly, or perhaps the closer is not installed correctly. Passed 100,000 open/close private cycle testConcealed TypeConcealed type that is hidden from view when door is closed.Self and soft-closes within a 10 radius of closing. The door is made of aluminum and I would say it's heavy, like most newer houses have, with a thickness of maybe 2". On the pull side of the door, the plate should be flush with the top of the door so that it can be screwed to the thin strip of wood inside the top of the door. I am just wondering if any standard screw and cap can fix this issue, or will I have to get some special one that is made specifically for a door closer? Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on April 17, 2012: I think you can have your cake and eat it, too, if you use an LCN 4011T to close the door and an electromagnetic hold open with a timer. In that case, it would probably have a mechanical device that would be activated when the opener has opened the door to the right angle. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on October 01, 2009: See my article on door closer adjustment: https://dengarden.com/home-improvement/Door-Closer, How do i keep it from slaming when the door is closing i have a stop arm standard mount door.
A surface-mounting, soft-closing mechanism for free swinging interior doors using Lapcon technology - passed over 100,000 open/close private cycle tests.
They are often used in high traffic applications, such as the front door of a large office building. cabinet brass hinges door hinge solid It is an old Yale Amarlite, if that matters. If this clicking is faint and happening as you are opening the door (and it is NOT the arm screw) it may be the one-way check valve ball in the piston of the closer allowing fluid to pass through, the noise may be loud in some closers but it should not effect dampening effect. I am concerned that standard screen door closers won't be strong enough so I am looking for a closer that will fit into the 3 inches between the storm door and comes in brass or bronze.
A door closer is a spring-loaded hydraulic device that closes a door automatically. The problem is that it will swing quite abruptly and one of our nurses got her finger pinched.
Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on March 07, 2011: There are special mounting brackets for door closers for special applications. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on February 02, 2012: Really I feel that is a comparison between apples and oranges. Sheets of veneer are glued to a thin wooden frame that comprises the edges of the door. Hi Tom, was doing some adjusting on my auto door closer when the self drilling screws had pulled out of the hollow metal door that it's used on. Please stop back and let us know how it all turns out. We mounted the door closer and it lasted about a dozen closes before coming loosesolid door or is there a hardware kit available for hollow doors??
even though to many the instruction on the "barrel" (called the spring tube) shows the steps "if" with diagram of the 6 hole mounting plate and "then" showing the valve screwed in. additionally, i'd like to find a digital door pressure gauge.. could a fishing scale be used in a pinch (rigged of course to apply "pressure" from either side..).
If it were held open for several decades, it might have some effect. As a result, we cannot show you the price in catalog or the product page. If you are looking for a good door closer and your first priority is reliability, Rixson and LCN are both good choices. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on December 08, 2011: Closers are handed the same as doors. Not sure how to fix it. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on September 29, 2016: Yes, the UH4031 has a size five strength spring whereas the 4016 or 4116 has a size six. When you repair your door casing, try to include a piece of wood to reinforce the header inside and to give you a solid place to which you can fasten your door closer shoe. Alternatively you could use spring hinges, but these would simply slam the door. due to once installed correctly there will be no need to have to turn it again unless taking closer off and putting it on pull side (if previously installed on a push) hence why its suppose to be set BEFORE putting it on the door (or frame if doing a TJ install), hope i wasn't too confusing to understand, please email me (you have my email address) if still confused about backcheck selection. On the page will be a link to the installation instructions.
I only felt a little foolish because here I am in the business for over 30 years, installing and selling LCN 4041's the whole time, and I never knew about the Backcheck Selection Valve! Weight : 15 - 40 kg There are high spring power door closers, such as the LCN 4116 for push side mounting or 4016 for pull side mounting that offer more closing strength for adverse conditions, however the more force a door closer exerts to hold a door closed, the harder it will be for people to open. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on July 23, 2010: The site you link to carries top line door closers. Removing the bookmarks also deletes the notes. It is likely you have a floor closer since they are a popular solution for all glass doors. great article Tom! You have some leeway about the size of the screw that you use to reattach it. I think we can conclude that the door is being opened with sufficient force to 'bottom out' the arm such that it pulls very hard on the closer body, pulling out or shearing off the screws. Glass and aluminum? There is a third kind, the overhead concealed-in-door door closer, but since it is so rarely used I did not include a photo here. Your model will have its own page. Is there an adjustment on the resistance? (no idea why i have not been offered a job working at Norton or LCN, but about every locksmith (on the internet) that i have communicated with and even people at IRST (ingersoll rand security technologies) have told me about visiting the LCN plant to watch closers be made or even take a course in them. Unlike concealed door closers for which doors are almost always prepared by the door manufacturer, surface mounted door closers need no special prep. LCN makes a model that we use. I have tried to dry lube the turn points but that has not helped. i did once run across the round top metal gate but since it was about 9ft tall AND inside was 'masked' by mesh/flat expanded metal, was able to install horizontal crossbar at 7' minimum height and fit 4041 to it and have it both not in the way and looking ok. also, there seems to be some variance where one applies the tip of a door pressure gauge.. some of your wisdom, please Tom. mounting? Surface mounted closer, top jamb installation. It's for an exterior door. Tom rubenoff (author) from United States on September 29, 2011: Your worries are well founded, Baz. Tom Rubenoff has worked for over 35 years in the door hardware industry. It is very difficult to pull off option 2 and have it not turn out like the hack job it is, but sometimes there is no choice. That is, is the closer installed in the right place on the door according to the instructions? Your answers are always on target. Ordered with the optional track bumper, it acts as an overhead stop in addition to being a full featured adjustable door closer. can drill throught e door to make a port for it on the door, but then you have an unsightly hole in the door on the opposite side of the closer. Answer: Your question prompts me to ask a question.