absurd being summaries meditations And I dont either. He kept teaching and he built a reputation so that fairly wealthy people sent their kids to Nicopolis to study with Epictetus and one of the later emperors, Hadrian, became a good friend of his. The insult itself is not, but how you react to it is up to you. This is an interesting aspect of Stoicism because some people think that many elements of the British public school system, the private school system, were modelled on Stoicism: that a certain amount of deprivation, quite a few cold showers, cold baths, early morning runs and so on, built character. What they did counsel was apatheia. Epictetus wasa slave who became aprominent philosopher and teacher, andbecame a friend ofemperors, Epictetus was an interesting life: a slave who turns prominent philosopher and teacher, who becomes friends with emperors and is kicked out by other emperors: its fascinating. He also wrote long essays and epistlesa lot of epistles. The Meditations initially did not have a title at all and it was known during the Middle Ages by the title To Myself because this was the Roman emperors personal diary. You could study philosophy to a high level without studying Epictetus. Despite this he had a successful career as a university professor, and would grade his students papers by writing with his foot. . A few years ago I went through a midlife crisis and switched from my first academic career as an evolutionary biologist to become a philosopher. There was even a medieval forgery of an alleged correspondence between Seneca and Paul. Yes. Larry Baker and James Stockdale are showjust how much a human being can actually deal with. But he was very sympathetic to Stoicism. The response by many academic philosophers has been: What did you expect? But thats like a mathematician, lets say, or an economist, whos caught badly managing his bank account and his personal finances, and who responds when challenged about this incompetence: Im interested in the theory here, not the practice. Excellent question. There was an open market of philosophical ideas, and to some extent, people just gravitated to one school or another depending on either the fame of the teacher or the appeal of the teaching. Why is it so interesting? Seneca famously said that we die every day of our life, by which he meant that our entire life is a preparation for the ultimate test: how you handle death. Its an exercise in gratitude which is a basic Stoic practice: you have to remind yourself of the people you are grateful to because they are important in your life. Epictetus says exactly this in the Discourses, he says: I used to go round responding humorously to people and then I got my nose broken. And he adds: so I dont do it anymore, I just walk away.. This is referred to as the ancient philosophy diaspora: the philosophers from different schools went out into different places. This is a more academic book than your other choices. Is it really philosophy any more at that point? So he says we do certain things, or this is something that happened to us. is perhaps the only document of its kind ever made. Arrian was very well known in the ancient world. We have excellent accounts of the lives of ancient Stoics: we know a lot about the Greek Stoics, beginning from Zeno, the founder of the philosophy, through Diogenes Laertius Lives of the Philosophers, which includes several mini-biographies of Stoics; and of course we also know a lot about Epictetus, Marcus Aurelius, Seneca, Musonius Rufus, and others too. Yes. So, in modern terms, we would say that Epictetus thought that the physics and the logic were relevant at some level to the ethics, but they underdetermine it. Ethics, for them, was the study of how to live a good life. Its interesting because it guides you on how to live your life from a Stoic perspective. It could be under your control if you commit suicide, couldnt it? The ancients simply opened schools, and competed with other schools. One slightly odd feature of the book is that when he writes about Stoics, he writes in the first person plural. For Christians, if you think about it, they have their role modelJesuswho is, by definition, an impossible role model to emulate: hes a god. Theres very little theoretical philosophy in Epictetus. This is probably the most famous book written by a Stoic. Theyre not just writing about it; theyre not just theorising about it; they really practise it. They literally were letters. These are some of the reasons why Seneca is criticised even by modern Stoics. Of course I also went back and read the Platonic dialogues to look at the source of all of this. You cannot read this book and not come away with a phrase or a line that will be helpful to you next time you are in trouble. Subscribe to get our free Daily Stoic email. That is, as you say, a caricature of Stoicism; but its a very common one, and its not going to go away anytime soon. I can see why Epictetus is so attractive. ), or for those wishing to pursue particular aspects or applications of the philosophy (Stoicism and the military, politically progressive Stoicism, and of course Stoic dating!). They didnt counsel apathy. When I read that I started laughing. Suicide is a big deal for the Stoics, and for Epictetus in particular. Exactly, and in fact that is the title of one of the two recent biographies I mentioned of Seneca: Dying Every Day. Theres nothing like self-flagellation in Stoicism. Then theres: On the terrors of death. Death was a constant Stoic theme. I started reading about ethics. But most of our lives do present us with challenges, even minor challenges, for which I think Stoicism is perfectly appropriate. Marcus Aurelius was the most powerful man in the world at the time, yet his wife was cheating on him, and his advisers were treacherous. It thrived in Athens until the Athenians made what turned out to be a fundamental political mistake siding with Mithridates against the Romans. He wasnt interested in metaphysics. It is the most accessible editioncompletely devoid of any thous and shalls. One of the things that I do, the reason Im here in Rome, other than that my family is here and its a nice place to visit, is because I wanted to be in a place that would inspire meIm literally next door to the Colosseum and the Roman Forum. Just like it did back in Athens around 300 BCE, when Zeno of Citium got things started. I think the Romans would definitely not go that far. img_width: 120, img_height: 120, title: true, price: false, facebook: false, free_clicks: false, }, Thats the equivalent of 200 today presumably. Really, so you shouldnt proselytise for Stoicism? This particular philosophy may not be for everyone, and it certainly isnt the only way to live a good life. The Stoics also had fictional role models, ancient heroes and demigods like Hercules. Is that almost an injunction not to get het up about metaphysical questions at the expense of living well? So thats all we have from Epictetus today: the surviving four volumes of the Discourses and then the Enchiridion, which is very short. The eudaimonic life, which is often translated as the happy life, doesnt really translate very wellits more like the flourishing life. Just briefly, from a historical perspective: Stoicism started in Athens in the year 300, or 301 BCE in a school established by Zeno. So it is no surprise that at a time when mainstream religion is losing its appeal people turn to secular or at least theologically neutral approaches to living a good life. Whenever I need a break, like after our conversation today, Ill just go down and walk by the Forum. Thats your first choice of books. If the universe is made up of atoms, or its made up of something else, those are interesting questions but theyre not going to affect your life. They went to the thermal baths, starting with a hot sauna; then they went into hot water, what they called a calidarium; and then they jumped into what they called the frigidarium, which was this pool of really, really cold water. Epictetus, famously, was a slave in his early life, wasnt he? We ask experts to recommend the five best books in their subject and explain their selection in an interview. Marcus Aurelius was the most powerful man in the world at the time, and yet he was dealing not only with major events like revolts throughout the Roman Empire, but also with his wife who was cheating on him, and with some of his advisers who were treacherous. Let me give you an example, I have a very good friend, who is both a practising Stoic and a practising Buddhist. In Stoicism you have an ideal model, and, yes, most of us will fall short of that, but it is an achievable model. We know what these people did, and how they practised their philosophies. In fact his foot writing was much neater than my friends handwriting, apparently. That was the view of early Stoics. People need some sort of ethical compass to live and perhaps even thrive through these sorts of things. He uses that starting point as a way to counsel his friend Lucilius, and therefore his audience at large, about moderation. Why am I reacting this way? The aim was to examine your emotion and to manage or gradually eliminate the negative, destructive ones. Domitian kicked out all philosophers from Rome and sent them into exile. He started spending more time outside of Rome, and thats when he wrote the Epistles to Lucilius. The very first person he thanks is his grandfather: From my grandfather Verus I learnt good morals and the government of my emperor, and then he goes on to thank his mother, his teachers, his brother, and so on. Seneca eventually managed to achieve a sort of semi-retirement anyway. One of the reasons Stoicism came back in modern times is because these tricks are useful. Unlike the Meditations, these were not meant just as personal correspondence. He makes mistakes, hes a human figure, hes somebody you can relate to but who constantly strives to do better: he constantly strives to do the right thing. The contrast between anger and justice is exactly this: that anger will cloud your judgement, even if it is justifiable anger, even if there is a good reason to be angry at something. The Penguin translation is fantastic, both for this collection of letters (which are more like essays than true correspondence) and for his collection of essays, On the Shortness of Life. Thats why I gave you the example of the way Bill Irvine responds to insults. There is nothing in any of these biographies or in any of their writings that suggests that they behaved in a Spock-like way and suppressed their emotions in order to think about things rationally. The golden years for Stoic philosophy was five centuries, give or take, from 300 BCE to the second century. It has been in print ever since there have been printing presses. One of the things that I have done while here was to visit the Domus Aurea. Seneca is often criticised, even by modern Stoics, as a somewhat ambiguous figure because despite being a self-professed Stoic he was preaching virtue at the same time that he oversaw Neros first five years in power. Am I being insulted? Personally, I prefer the Penguin translations, but Ive tried a handful of others and found the differences to be relatively negligible. The idea is that Stoicism is now 23 centuries old, and that just like modern Christians or Buddhists are not sticking necessarily to the original version of their philosophies, so Stoics need to update things for the 21st century, taking into account the progress incurred in the meantime by both science and philosophy. What youre describing seems to me to be a perversion of the Stoic idea. If you look at just the titles of the letters, thats revealing, titles such as: On true and false friendship. try {Linkcious.init(linkcious_config);} catch (e) {}}; This site has an archive of more than one thousand seven hundred interviews, or eight thousand book recommendations. Then he lists the kinds of things that are under your control and those that are not: things under your control are your behaviour, your decisions, your rational thinking processes; the things that are not under your control are all the externalities: your health, your wealth, your education, your stature in life, your reputation. Becker is interested in updating Stoic philosophy for today. Becker had a dedication to his students and to his career and didnt allow his physical problems to stand in his way. Its your own discipline. He had a major Stoic for a teacher who gave him a copy of Epictetus Discourses. ? The Stoics believed that good character is made of the practice of four fundamental virtues, we call them the cardinal virtues. And speaking of Epictetus, my newest book is coming out in the UK on 9/17, with the title The Stoic Guide to a Happy Life (American title: A Field Guide to a Happy Life), and it is a complete rewrite of one of ancient Stoicisms most important texts, Epictetuss Enchiridion (or Manual). Then I heard about an event that takes place in the UK called Stoic Week; I remembered Stoicism from studying it in high school. He says whatever turns out to be turns out to be. So he says: My dear Lucilius, you might wonder why am I quoting our competitor; his answer in Latin is quod verum est meum est which means that which is true is mine. They went to Rome which was basically the enemy headquarters. This is a recent thing, a20th century phenomenon. Thats right. Their idea was that in order to figure out how to live your life, you needed to understand how the universe works and what your place in it wasthat would be the physicsand you also needed to understand how human beings reason and fail to reason well; thats where the logic came in. Its hard to tell for sure, of course. So these are psychological tricks arent they? Domitian kicked out all philosophers from Rome and sent them into exile. Could you say a little bit about how you came to Stoicism? He says Stoicism has helped him cope with moderate inconveniences, like getting on the subway in the morning to go to work in New York City and having to deal with the obnoxious behaviour of some people.
If its now then Im ready, lets go, lets do it, because everybody has to die; but if not now, then Im going to do other things, and of course when death comes, its not under your control, so you just accept it, whenever it is. If you do things in anger, youre very likely going to do things that you regret. Epictetus didnt write any books; he was a teacher, in the same vein as Socrates, who made a point of not writing his ideas down. Now, Epictetus and the ancient Stoics had a somewhat optimistic view of what is up to us, as it turns out, because of course a lot of modern cognitive science tells us that much human thinking is not conscious, and that a lot of the time we engage in rationalising about things more than in proper rational thinking. So actually the translation might be better: we are dying every day? He said: This is it. A number of philosophers were put to death and a number exiled. We won't send you spam. They feel as if they were written two weeks ago, not two millennia ago.
The second book that I recommend, William Irvines A Guide to the Good Life, deals with this in some detail. So you think its lucky to experience that? Exactly, its a sort of philosophical judo, what Bill practises. Then Chrysippus, a charismatic figure, took over, and students returned. Although our focus currently is on a pandemic, we shouldnt forget that we still face the possibility of climate collapse, are under the constant threat of nuclear Armageddon, and we keep experiencing dramatic political upheavals and civil unrest. I can aspire to behave as much as possible like him, but Im never going to achieve that fully because hes an immortal and I am not the son of God. There, I think, a good comparison can be made between Stoicism and Christianity. Its not something that everybody can dothe fact that he as a man achieved enlightenment, however, shows that it is achievable. I know youre both a theorist and a practitioner. Seneca was a stoic as well, but like Marcus, he was practical and borrowed liberally from other schools. How did I come to it? His answer, of course, is yes, and I tend to agree. Throughout the Renaissance, for example, Seneca was thought of as close to being a secular saint because he tried to do the best that he could do in the impossible situation of having to deal with Nero, and because in the end he did the right thing, by committing suicide, partly to save some of his properties for his family. Its over four years since I interviewed you about Stoicism, and there have been quite a few new books published on this topic since then. What is an insult? So the first time I heard about Stoic Week I thought, thats weird, and I didnt pay much attention to it.
William Irvines book is part of the recent resurrection of Stoicism. So the idea was that you achieved tranquillity in life, you achieved what the Epicureans, who were rivals of the Stoics, called ataraxia or tranquility of mind, if you developed a magnanimous attitude towards the world. The Moral Epistles is in some ways Senecas philosophical testament because it conveys his mature thought. Epictetus was focused on ethics, which is the third Stoic concern. Should I even pay attention to an insult to begin with? 
The award-winning Cameroonian novelist Mutt-Lon selects five of the best recent novels from Francophone Africa, including Mohamed Mbougar Sarr's Prix Goncourt-winning La plus secrte mmoire des hommes. Yes, it is a better title, I agree. The last major Stoic was Marcus Aurelius. img_border: true, img_border_color: '#ECECEC',},}}; I have to die. This week our philosophy editor, Nigel Warburton, caught up with Massimo and asked him about new Stoicism books that have come out since they first spokeand why the philosophy remains so popular in 2020. He told me: It used to be that I got irritated, it used to be that I started my day miserably because of somebody doing something obnoxious on the subway, but once I started practising these things and sort of readjusting my mental expectations, I just saw these things as the kind of behaviour that really cannot touch me.. The Enchiridion, the Handbook, is the short version that Arrian put together by picking the best bits from the Discourses. For some people, though, these sorts of enforced deprivation have been quite psychologically damaging. Its not that you cant influence the things not under your control, of course you can. I met him through a common friend, and this common friend told me stories about Larry that put everything in a different perspective for me. Its difficult, but not impossible to emulate the sage. Obviously thats not a compliment. He was a very interesting figure. The sage is a human being. Arguably the most basic one, which Epictetus insists on several times, and is also how the Enchiridion starts, is his famous dichotomy of control: he says, some things are under your control and other things are not under your control. There was nothing wrong with material possessions, as long as you never, ever traded those for virtue. In the Buddhist tradition thats not easy. Buddha allegedly achieved enlightenment in his lifetime. var s = d.createElement(t); s.type = 'text/javascript'; s.async = 'true'; Then Nero became more unhinged both in life and in the way in which he was running the business of the empire, and eventually that led to revolt. Now we can read those letters and they can guide us through problems with grief, wealth, poverty, success, failure, education and so many other things. When Seneca saw that Nero was going too far and was definitely going off the rails, Seneca tried several times to retire. Musonius Rufus, Epictetus teacher, was twice exiled. Meditations is perhaps the only document of its kind ever made. A hot shower is a luxury. Externalities, practical goods and things like that, are OK. Its not obvious that theres a school of neo-Aristotelian people practically trying to be more virtuous. Lawrence Becker is a retired philosophy professor. Five Books interviews are expensive to produce. It is packed with resources on Stoicismfrom more book recommendations to Stoic exercisesas well as a chapter from bestselling author Ryan Holidays book. Throughout the Renaissance, for example, Seneca was thought of as close to being a secular saint. The Stoics offer us valuable strategies of thinking about and dealing with hardships that remain relevant for modern society, Massimo Pigliucci, Professor of Philosophy at the City College of New York and practising Stoic, told us in 2016.
But they were written to be published, werent they? The philosophers left. It is imminently readable and perfectly accessible. In fact one of the four Stoic virtues is temperanceself-control, so that you do everything in moderation, including, of course, these Stoic exercises of self-deprivation. Am I right that many of the Stoics grounded their ethics on metaphysics, so the metaphysics actually shaped the ethics? Reading Seneca will do that. I began reading more broadly, andcoming to philosophy in the second half of my lifeI had a lot to catch up with. Well, now we have this book. But carrying on with that style of thinking, you could end up getting someone to water-board you for a little bit, so you realise how lucky you are to be able to breathe. Nero refused and tried to keep Seneca in his entourage. It presents 52 exercises for practising Stoicism, from which people can sample in order to tailor their practice to their specific needs. Then I went beyond Aristotle and read what little there is available on Epicureanism and some of the other Hellenistic schools of virtue ethics. stoicism As a result, he tells me, hes been a much happier person, because a lot of things that were stressful for him, like his colleagues not thinking well of his work now just washes over him, and hes even amused by it. Back in Athens, Cleanthes (the second head of the Stoa) was apparently a good philosopher, but not a particularly engaging teacher and by the end of his career the number of students dropped off significantly. Thats debatable, though a good point. When he said we die every day, did he mean we die because we sleep? Now, the reason Im bringing this up, in answer to your question, is because there is a good, interesting distinction between Christianity and the Stoic approach. Weve been talking about Roman Stoics, the most famous by far of the Stoic works is Marcus Aureliuss Meditations, which is your third book choice. After a few years as Epictetus student, he became a historian and a writer in his own right. Exactly. How do you react in life when things dont go your way? He led a fascinating life, and put forward a very interesting practical philosophy. The Meditations consists of twelve short books. Thats like a kind of martial art: if you imagine in judo, somebody moving in a certain direction, well you help them carry on a bit and trip them up in the process. Or we die because we have fear of death, or something different? rational It was really amazing. The obvious example of a destructive emotion, particularly in Senecas writing, was anger.
If its now then Im ready, lets go, lets do it, because everybody has to die; but if not now, then Im going to do other things, and of course when death comes, its not under your control, so you just accept it, whenever it is. If you do things in anger, youre very likely going to do things that you regret. Epictetus didnt write any books; he was a teacher, in the same vein as Socrates, who made a point of not writing his ideas down. Now, Epictetus and the ancient Stoics had a somewhat optimistic view of what is up to us, as it turns out, because of course a lot of modern cognitive science tells us that much human thinking is not conscious, and that a lot of the time we engage in rationalising about things more than in proper rational thinking. So actually the translation might be better: we are dying every day? He said: This is it. A number of philosophers were put to death and a number exiled. We won't send you spam. They feel as if they were written two weeks ago, not two millennia ago.
The second book that I recommend, William Irvines A Guide to the Good Life, deals with this in some detail. So you think its lucky to experience that? Exactly, its a sort of philosophical judo, what Bill practises. Then Chrysippus, a charismatic figure, took over, and students returned. Although our focus currently is on a pandemic, we shouldnt forget that we still face the possibility of climate collapse, are under the constant threat of nuclear Armageddon, and we keep experiencing dramatic political upheavals and civil unrest. I can aspire to behave as much as possible like him, but Im never going to achieve that fully because hes an immortal and I am not the son of God. There, I think, a good comparison can be made between Stoicism and Christianity. Its not something that everybody can dothe fact that he as a man achieved enlightenment, however, shows that it is achievable. I know youre both a theorist and a practitioner. Seneca was a stoic as well, but like Marcus, he was practical and borrowed liberally from other schools. How did I come to it? His answer, of course, is yes, and I tend to agree. Throughout the Renaissance, for example, Seneca was thought of as close to being a secular saint because he tried to do the best that he could do in the impossible situation of having to deal with Nero, and because in the end he did the right thing, by committing suicide, partly to save some of his properties for his family. Its over four years since I interviewed you about Stoicism, and there have been quite a few new books published on this topic since then. What is an insult? So the first time I heard about Stoic Week I thought, thats weird, and I didnt pay much attention to it.
William Irvines book is part of the recent resurrection of Stoicism. So the idea was that you achieved tranquillity in life, you achieved what the Epicureans, who were rivals of the Stoics, called ataraxia or tranquility of mind, if you developed a magnanimous attitude towards the world. The Moral Epistles is in some ways Senecas philosophical testament because it conveys his mature thought. Epictetus was focused on ethics, which is the third Stoic concern. Should I even pay attention to an insult to begin with? The award-winning Cameroonian novelist Mutt-Lon selects five of the best recent novels from Francophone Africa, including Mohamed Mbougar Sarr's Prix Goncourt-winning La plus secrte mmoire des hommes. Yes, it is a better title, I agree. The last major Stoic was Marcus Aurelius. img_border: true, img_border_color: '#ECECEC',},}}; I have to die. This week our philosophy editor, Nigel Warburton, caught up with Massimo and asked him about new Stoicism books that have come out since they first spokeand why the philosophy remains so popular in 2020. He told me: It used to be that I got irritated, it used to be that I started my day miserably because of somebody doing something obnoxious on the subway, but once I started practising these things and sort of readjusting my mental expectations, I just saw these things as the kind of behaviour that really cannot touch me.. The Enchiridion, the Handbook, is the short version that Arrian put together by picking the best bits from the Discourses. For some people, though, these sorts of enforced deprivation have been quite psychologically damaging. Its not that you cant influence the things not under your control, of course you can. I met him through a common friend, and this common friend told me stories about Larry that put everything in a different perspective for me. Its difficult, but not impossible to emulate the sage. Obviously thats not a compliment. He was a very interesting figure. The sage is a human being. Arguably the most basic one, which Epictetus insists on several times, and is also how the Enchiridion starts, is his famous dichotomy of control: he says, some things are under your control and other things are not under your control. There was nothing wrong with material possessions, as long as you never, ever traded those for virtue. In the Buddhist tradition thats not easy. Buddha allegedly achieved enlightenment in his lifetime. var s = d.createElement(t); s.type = 'text/javascript'; s.async = 'true'; Then Nero became more unhinged both in life and in the way in which he was running the business of the empire, and eventually that led to revolt. Now we can read those letters and they can guide us through problems with grief, wealth, poverty, success, failure, education and so many other things. When Seneca saw that Nero was going too far and was definitely going off the rails, Seneca tried several times to retire. Musonius Rufus, Epictetus teacher, was twice exiled. Meditations is perhaps the only document of its kind ever made. A hot shower is a luxury. Externalities, practical goods and things like that, are OK. Its not obvious that theres a school of neo-Aristotelian people practically trying to be more virtuous. Lawrence Becker is a retired philosophy professor. Five Books interviews are expensive to produce. It is packed with resources on Stoicismfrom more book recommendations to Stoic exercisesas well as a chapter from bestselling author Ryan Holidays book. Throughout the Renaissance, for example, Seneca was thought of as close to being a secular saint. The Stoics offer us valuable strategies of thinking about and dealing with hardships that remain relevant for modern society, Massimo Pigliucci, Professor of Philosophy at the City College of New York and practising Stoic, told us in 2016. But they were written to be published, werent they? The philosophers left. It is imminently readable and perfectly accessible. In fact one of the four Stoic virtues is temperanceself-control, so that you do everything in moderation, including, of course, these Stoic exercises of self-deprivation. Am I right that many of the Stoics grounded their ethics on metaphysics, so the metaphysics actually shaped the ethics? Reading Seneca will do that. I began reading more broadly, andcoming to philosophy in the second half of my lifeI had a lot to catch up with. Well, now we have this book. But carrying on with that style of thinking, you could end up getting someone to water-board you for a little bit, so you realise how lucky you are to be able to breathe. Nero refused and tried to keep Seneca in his entourage. It presents 52 exercises for practising Stoicism, from which people can sample in order to tailor their practice to their specific needs. Then I went beyond Aristotle and read what little there is available on Epicureanism and some of the other Hellenistic schools of virtue ethics. stoicism As a result, he tells me, hes been a much happier person, because a lot of things that were stressful for him, like his colleagues not thinking well of his work now just washes over him, and hes even amused by it. Back in Athens, Cleanthes (the second head of the Stoa) was apparently a good philosopher, but not a particularly engaging teacher and by the end of his career the number of students dropped off significantly. Thats debatable, though a good point. When he said we die every day, did he mean we die because we sleep? Now, the reason Im bringing this up, in answer to your question, is because there is a good, interesting distinction between Christianity and the Stoic approach. Weve been talking about Roman Stoics, the most famous by far of the Stoic works is Marcus Aureliuss Meditations, which is your third book choice. After a few years as Epictetus student, he became a historian and a writer in his own right. Exactly. How do you react in life when things dont go your way? He led a fascinating life, and put forward a very interesting practical philosophy. The Meditations consists of twelve short books. Thats like a kind of martial art: if you imagine in judo, somebody moving in a certain direction, well you help them carry on a bit and trip them up in the process. Or we die because we have fear of death, or something different? rational It was really amazing. The obvious example of a destructive emotion, particularly in Senecas writing, was anger.
